How to Make Money Fun Again: Joe Saul-Sehy on Emergency Funds, Insurance & Family Adventures | E53
What happens when personal finance meets fun, adventure, and real-world wisdom? Deb Meyer sits down with Joe Saul-Sehy, the dynamic co-host of Stacking Benjamins and author of Stacked, to talk about money in a way only Joe can: light, insightful, and incredibly human.
We explore how humor can disarm money fears, why emergency funds are really self-insurance, and how to approach disability and life insurance like a true risk manager. Joe also dives into how automation trumps discipline when building lasting financial habits.
Plus, Joe shares insider tips from his passion project podcast Stacking Adventures, highlighting how families can travel smart and turn everyday moments into unforgettable experiences.
Episode Highlights
(2:10) Why humor is a powerful tool to make money approachable
(6:00) How an emergency fund functions as “self-insurance”
(6:30) The real ROI of cash reserves
(15:00) What "own occupation" disability coverage really means and why most people miss it
(22:07) How to evaluate life insurance options (term vs. permanent) without falling for industry bias
Connect with Joe Saul-Sehy
Stacking Adventures Podcast, travel tips for adventurous families
Joe’s book Stacked: Your Super-Serious Guide to Modern Money Management
Connect with Host Deb Meyer, CFP®
Founder of WorthyNest®, helping faith-driven parents build financial plans that reflect their values.
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Full transcript
Deb Meyer (00:00.428)
Are you ever super psyched for another day on the job? This is one of those days for me. Today, you're going to hear from Joe Salsehi. He's the creator and co-host of the famous Stacking Benjamin's podcast. He's also co-author of the book Stacked, and he's made hundreds of media appearances, including MC of FinCon, which is an annual conference connecting personal finance content creators. That's where he and I met many years ago.
Joe, thank you so much for being on Beyond Budgets.
Joe Saul-Sehy (00:30.668)
Deb, I'm super happy to be here. I am here just to announce my retirement because there's nothing better. This is the top of the mountain. So.
Deb Meyer (00:38.638)
In case you guys haven't heard Joe before, he's quite funny. So I do not think he'll be retiring after doing this episode. Yeah. Right. Well, and seriously, like you make personal finance, honestly, you're one of the few people that can make it fun and engaging. So.
Joe Saul-Sehy (00:51.736)
Maybe, maybe, maybe not. But I thought about it. I thought about it for a sec. I'm like, does it give, doesn't get better though, Deb. So thank you for having me.
Deb Meyer (01:07.374)
I'm curious, why do you think it's important to take a lighthearted approach to money when many parents take it so seriously?
Joe Saul-Sehy (01:15.712)
No, well, and I think that's the thing. We need to take it seriously, but we're not reaching that many people. I mean, if you take your wonderful podcast, our podcast, you take big names like Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman or heck even we'll throw, you know, Jim Kramer in there, his audience. Dave Ramsey doesn't report what his numbers are, but there may be two to 3 million people. Maybe if you add up everybody, there's maybe 20 to 30 million people listening to financial
Deb Meyer (01:21.421)
Mm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (01:45.784)
content to financial stuff. And with a nation of over 330 million people, what that means is while 30 million sounds like a lot, it truly means nobody's listening. yeah. So what you hear all the time is, is, well, it just seems inaccessible. It doesn't seem like something that I can really get into. And, people a long time ago told me I should have a podcast. I was listening to podcasts back in the early days of podcast.
Deb Meyer (01:47.96)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (01:58.112)
a small percentage, yeah.
Joe Saul-Sehy (02:15.954)
And, and I kept telling them, no, I don't want to be Dave Ramsey or Susie Orman. You know, people bring their money to them and then I yell at them about it. Like I, I just, I just don't want to be that person. Don't get me wrong. There's something, Deb, the basis piece of me really loves when Dave Ramsey lays into somebody who's doing something bad, but, but that's not the energy that I have. It's not.
Deb Meyer (02:22.286)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (02:40.504)
You
Joe Saul-Sehy (02:44.844)
what I want to bring to the world. And so I'm on my lawn one day and I'm, have headphones on listening to the radio. I'm listening to this NPR show called car talk. don't know if you remember this old joke car talk, but these brothers, they call themselves click and clack. They, they had this hugely popular show about cars. And it's funny because it was a show that was made for people that don't necessarily like cars. And I'm a guy, my dad worked in
Deb Meyer (03:01.848)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (03:13.538)
for GM for his entire career. I still get intimidated by cars, you know, and when car fans start talking to me about cars, I'm lost immediately. But these guys, non-car fans would call in and they would say things like, you know, I've got this problem with my car and the two brothers, instead of getting all technical, they go, well, Deb, it making a brup brup brup brup noise or is it making a ring ring ring ring ring? And they go, well, it's more like a ring ring ring. And I'm laughing my head off.
Deb Meyer (03:16.024)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (03:42.36)
And it's so fun. And I realized that day I'm not learning a bunch about cars, but I'm no longer intimidated. Now I can do these, these little things. And most of it is, you know, finding the right mechanic, right. Getting the right help. And then, and then, uh, being comfortable inside the conversation. I'm like, Oh my goodness, there's a podcast. So I immediately thought.
Deb Meyer (03:48.238)
Mmm.
Deb Meyer (03:55.245)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (04:02.904)
Yeah.
Joe Saul-Sehy (04:04.79)
that if we could make it light and accessible instead of two industry insiders, the CFP and a former financial planner working, nobody wants to listen to two boring middle-aged white dudes talk money. Instead, we made it from mom's basement. We share our mistakes and we bring on people that often aren't financial people specifically for that reason, like a mountain climber. woman.
Deb Meyer (04:17.646)
you
Joe Saul-Sehy (04:31.232)
Jen Drummond climbed the second highest peaks of in every continent of the world. can't believe I couldn't remember the word continent, but every continent she climbed the second highest peak, which is often more difficult than the highest peak because the highest peak, it's all the attention. It's like the middle kid, right? The oldest kid gets all the attention, all the notoriety, all the help. And so the middle one is not as respected, doesn't have
Deb Meyer (04:39.511)
Wow.
That's okay.
Deb Meyer (04:59.47)
Mmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (05:00.578)
doesn't have all the all the people helping them get there. Anyway, somebody asked me right after that, they're like, why did you have Jen Drummond on a mountain climber? I'm like, because if she can climb mountains, you can open a Roth IRA. Exactly. Yeah. So it 100 percent is our teaching method.
Deb Meyer (05:14.22)
Yes, you can make really smart decisions with money. Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's great. And honestly, I'm excited to bring you on because I have a more technical topic I wanna talk about that a lot of people would think like, this isn't so fun, but I know you're gonna put a fun spin on it, insurance, okay?
Joe Saul-Sehy (05:37.176)
I love it. I love it.
Deb Meyer (05:39.628)
So obviously you being a former financial advisor, you're at least familiar with lot of terminology, but you're not selling it. You don't have any vested interest in it. What do you really think is like the best defense against life's pitfalls? I know in your book, I saw like a little bit different attitude with the emergency fund and I had never thought of it as self insurance. Can you elaborate on that concept a bit?
Joe Saul-Sehy (06:06.068)
100%. I love it. You know, when people, when I, when I get pushed back and you do too about, I don't want to put this money emergency fund. What does it earn Deb? And you go, well, next to nothing. People like, well, that just seems like a waste of money. I'm just going to invest the money and then I'll use credit or I'll take it out of the market. What if the market's down or what if it's 2008 again?
Deb Meyer (06:23.896)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Joe Saul-Sehy (06:27.96)
And, and, know, some people might not remember this, but they were decreasing lines of credit in a hurry. The banks were just taking the credit away. So we need this money that's sitting there on the side for that reason. And what, what I, what I realized was, as I was having this discussion with people over and over again, that truly the rate of return on that emergency fund is not the rotten 2%, 3%, whatever it might be. The true rate of return is.
Deb Meyer (06:33.752)
Sure.
Joe Saul-Sehy (06:57.688)
I can now raise the deductible on my homeowner's insurance because now don't get me wrong, this is money that I'm going to have to pay. The deductible is part you have to pay if something bad happens. But seeing that that's one in 1200 households, I look at my own experience with insurance and with having claims and maybe that's a good risk to take on myself. Well, if I've got the emergency fund, I can do that. I can do it with my car insurance. Again,
Deb Meyer (07:00.974)
Mm.
Deb Meyer (07:16.696)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (07:26.092)
This one's riskier. This is about one in 350 families. So I want to be super careful before I do that. Realized, but that's what that money's for. And now all of sudden I'm saving all this money on insurance policies that I truly don't need. Short-term disability insurance, you know, super important. The Aflac Duck is there for a reason because so many people have problems that keep them out of the workforce for one to six months. Well, if I've got a four to six month emergency fund,
Deb Meyer (07:32.855)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (07:45.859)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (07:51.788)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (07:55.544)
I don't need all that short-term disability coverage. So that's a huge rate of return, not the one to 3 % you're getting in the bank. It's all this money you're saving by self-insuring.
Deb Meyer (07:58.05)
Right, right.
Deb Meyer (08:07.49)
Yeah, and peace of mind, right? I mean, at the end of the day, like someone that has an ample emergency fund, or I even call it an opportunity fund, in my book, Redefining Feeling Wealth, like really looking at it as something that's liquid cash earning some kind of rate of return. Now, it might be low as interest rates continue to drop, but like,
we're in a position to really take on a little bit more risk and not have to pay these higher insurance premiums. So anytime you can.
Joe Saul-Sehy (08:36.29)
Well, I like the, yeah, I like the, emergency fund not being called emergency fund. used to call it a cash reserve for that same reason. Cause I love the opportunities. You probably have families that come to you like, Disney's having this phenomenal deal, but it's my emergency fund. can't take an, and I would say like, you know, a hundred percent grab it. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (08:45.218)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (08:56.334)
Yeah, go take the Disney trip. Well, and honestly, like it's there even if you think about it, if you need, let's just say you have a job loss or there's threat of job loss, right? If you know you have this opportunity or emergency fund, whatever you want to call it, cash reserve, you're going to be able to weather that storm a lot easier. I was just working with a client that
They built ample savings in cash and he was laid off and it took him many, many months to find a permanent long-term position. He was high up in the organization. It just took a long, long time. And had they not had that extra cash cushion, it would have been insanely hard for them to just pay regular bills month to month. So it's really important.
Joe Saul-Sehy (09:41.528)
Wow. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. I think people don't realize how important it is until you have it. And then every client I ever had back in the day, once they got it, they're like, I don't know what I was doing without this. Like, this is amazing. I make so many different choices. It's so cool. And I could think long-term, you know, I know a frustrating thing for me early in my life was that I got really into debt and credit card debt and I was just horrible with money.
Deb Meyer (09:48.866)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (09:54.766)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (10:09.422)
Hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (10:09.472)
And I found that once I had that emergency fund and the budget in place, I could stop thinking about what next week brings and start making long-term moves with my life, not just with my money, but with my career with just, I could think about things that were about building wealth and not about just keeping my head above water.
Deb Meyer (10:21.046)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (10:30.606)
Sure, yeah, out of that kind fight or flight response that's a stress state and into something more positive, right? Okay, so let's chat about, I know you brought up short-term disability, but I'd like to talk a little bit about long-term disability, especially for those parents that are the sole breadwinners often of their families, or maybe it is both spouses working, but there's always that risk, especially in an economy that's little shaky to have...
Joe Saul-Sehy (10:34.871)
Yeah.
Joe Saul-Sehy (10:38.794)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (10:59.683)
clarity on the job. what would you suggest for disability insurance in terms of protecting against that risk of loss of income?
Joe Saul-Sehy (11:09.548)
Well, number one is get it. and I say that because most of the time when I was in meetings and I'm sure talking to people like you and other advisors, nothing's changed. Everyone comes into, into their financial plan and goes, you know what? That's not going to happen to me. There's no way that's going to happen to me. So I'm to go ahead and I'm going to let that go. I'll get some through a quote, get some through work. And when I would ask people how much they have through work, they go, I don't know. I got it. I got it.
Deb Meyer (11:32.942)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (11:37.57)
I don't know how much it is. don't know what it does. And the whole reason to have it is to make sure that it protects against what we need. So I start with actually what do I need? And then where do I get it from? So the first thing is if I am disabled for a long period of time, like, like, what are my needs? How are they going to change? Are they going to be, are they going to be different than they are today? So I kind of look at my budget and I go line by line and I, and I look at them how much I'm going to need.
Deb Meyer (11:37.656)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (11:49.646)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (12:07.042)
Then I look at what reserves I have, what money I have. Is there a way that I can cover this myself? This is the first thing I want to, and by the way, I love this conversation because we're talking about managing a risk. We're not talking about buying insurance. We're talking about managing a risk. And if there's other ways to manage the risk, then we do it. So one way to manage the risk is by eating less, right? If I, if I just starve myself and I do nothing.
Deb Meyer (12:19.822)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (12:34.318)
you
Joe Saul-Sehy (12:37.174)
I've completely taken the financial need away and it's ridiculous. Right. Right. Right. No, no. And we're laughing because it, well, well, we're laughing because it's, we're, we're laughing because it's ridiculous, but, but Deb, mean, that, that is a choice.
Deb Meyer (12:41.486)
or go from eating out multiple times a week to eating at home, right? Not so extreme, right?
start myself if I...
just don't want to eat.
Deb Meyer (13:02.456)
Yep.
Joe Saul-Sehy (13:02.552)
And it is a way to quote, manage the risk. It's a completely ridiculous way, but it isn't about insurance companies want you to think about buying insurance. We don't want to think about buying insurance. We want to think about managing the risk. So to your point, let's take the ridiculous never eat again and go to maybe I stopped eating at restaurants so much. Bam. I managed part of the risk by lowering my cost. Maybe there's other things that I would do less of not to think in terms of a long-term disability. Do I want to do nothing forever? So I don't want to get rid of all of my
Deb Meyer (13:05.442)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Deb Meyer (13:13.272)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (13:22.136)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (13:32.47)
vacations, you know, any joy of living. I don't want to suck all that out. So I want to make sure that, that, that I'm happy while I'm alive, but I certainly can manage it through expense management. Then the second thing is I have some assets I built up. there any of those that won't damage my long-term plans like retirement, you know, financial independence that I can draw on early. If you've done a good job of saving for retirement, maybe you can supplement it that way, but.
Deb Meyer (13:36.184)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Deb Meyer (14:00.995)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (14:01.866)
assuming that's not going to happen, which was most of the families that I worked with was that, know what, there just isn't enough to cover this too. Then I start looking, looking at long-term disability coverage. Now, the first thing that I worry about with long-term disability coverage is this, this, thing called, own occupation coverage. This is for me, the biggest piece of it, because if I think about getting disabled,
Deb Meyer (14:06.701)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (14:09.998)
Thank
Deb Meyer (14:13.783)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (14:29.292)
what the insurance company is allowed to say. And I get this because disability claims there's so much fraud in this area of the world that the disability companies say, you know what, Deb, sure, you can't be a financial planner, but there are some other things you can do. So we're going to have you go look for these other jobs. And if you are in whatever, I don't know if it's a physical disability, if it's an emotion, if it's a mental disability, I don't know what the disability is.
Deb Meyer (14:38.978)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (14:57.334)
But if you're not in a place where you can do that physically, you might be able to do this job, but mentally you can't, you're now making things worse instead of making them better. And the insurance company is more than, in their legal rights to deny your claim. If you decide that you don't want to go look for other work. So to really protect yourself, you have to make sure that your disability coverage has what's called own occupation protection. Meaning if, if, if.
Deb Meyer (15:07.96)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (15:26.936)
Deb Meyer can't be a financial planner. She now can, can, get, collect this disability insurance benefit. Yup. I love that.
Deb Meyer (15:29.378)
Mm-hmm.
collect the disability benefits.
Deb Meyer (15:36.972)
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up that distinction because, just to reiterate it. So it's, it's own occupation is like, Hey, I'm a financial planner. If I am unable to be a financial planner in the future and I have a long-term disability policy, it will pay out. But if I'm under just a broader policy that doesn't have that own occupation definition, then it becomes more about, Hey, well, I can't be a financial planner, but I could be a greeter at Walmart or whatever the job is. Right. Technically.
If I am able to be a greeter at Walmart instead, they don't have to pay me on my disability policy if it didn't have that writer of own occupation, right?
Joe Saul-Sehy (16:16.514)
so important and it's one that's often missed. The second thing that people often miss when it comes to disability coverage is we go back to where do we get it? Well, obviously if my workplace can subsidize it and I have own occupation protection, then heck, if I can pay less for it, why wouldn't I buy it through work? So I go buy it through work. Now here, here is a problem that your workplace provider will often
Deb Meyer (16:18.796)
Yeah. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (16:37.134)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (16:44.12)
put in the fine print that you have to ask about. Let's say you need $5,000 a month of coverage. It says $5,000 a month, so you sign up for that. It's $5,000 a month with these maximums that are put on it that are absolutely ridiculous. they will often say not $5,000 maximum. It'll say like 60 % of your current income with a maximum of $2,000.
Deb Meyer (17:11.694)
Sure.
Joe Saul-Sehy (17:11.96)
or a maximum of $3,000. So I don't want to just see the percentage of my income. I want to see how much money that will actually be and how does it line up with those expenses that I have. So watch out for these things that say it's 60%, you know, as long as you make less than $500 a month or whatever the ridiculous number is.
Deb Meyer (17:23.256)
Yes.
Deb Meyer (17:29.75)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Well, and back to your point on the expense side, even though the disability policies are largely based on income or salary, whatever, really what you're trying to do is look at your actual expenses as a family, because I see plenty of families where they'll, you know, one family lives very frugally and they don't, they're able to save a lot of their income, right?
and they're gonna have a lower disability need than the family that spends all of the income or a substantial portion of it just for basic living expenses, right? So the policies that you might add on on top of whatever employer provided coverage are gonna be two different amounts.
Joe Saul-Sehy (18:15.426)
to and, and really important to look into it, into that, because yeah, we need to cover, cover that number. Then if I, then if I can't get enough to work, then I need to go outside. The bad news about going outside is this. And this, and this was, this was a mind meld for me to get my head around this, which was the insurances that are really important.
Are the ones where they charge you a lot and the ones that are not important are the ones where they charge you very little. And this drives me crazy. I'm sure everybody that just heard me say that, go, no, no, no, Joe, you got that backwards. I did not get that backwards. The ones where they charge you a lot are the ones you need to consider the ones where they don't charge you a lot. You don't need to spend a lot of time on it. And let me tell you why. And you don't necessarily need to buy the insurance, but I think that it's
It's important to know that these insurance companies are incredibly smart. They hire these people called actuaries who look at the risk. Scientifically, they look at the risk. These companies are also, they are state regulated. So can a company fool a regulator for one year or two? Okay, maybe let's say maybe, but long-term that's, that's not going to happen. So if they're state regulated.
Deb Meyer (19:23.448)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (19:38.582)
their premium expenses are state regulated and they have really smart people they've hired to make sure they stay solvent. The risks that are the biggest are the ones where they're going to charge you a lot of money. The risks that are the smallest are the ones where they're going to charge you not very much money. I was just looking at, by the way, some companies and it's funny, know, McDonald's spends a lot of time and money deciding where they're going to put their next location.
Deb Meyer (19:50.318)
Mm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (20:03.96)
Right. Because a big part of the McDonald's game is the real estate game that they're in. A lot of people don't even know that they make a ton of money on real estate as much as they do on hamburgers. But there there's a whole bunch of people that don't do any research except they see where McDonald's is putting their location. Because the only research they've done is, hey, if McDonald's succeeds there, they've done a ton of work. Then for us, it's the same. feel the same way, Deb, about insurances.
Deb Meyer (20:08.398)
Sure.
Deb Meyer (20:12.472)
You
Deb Meyer (20:20.782)
Come on.
Deb Meyer (20:31.906)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (20:32.288)
My goal wasn't to talk about McDonald's, it's to talk about insurance. And listen, if an insurance company goes, disability is going to cost you a lot, you should say, I need a plan here. Once again, you don't need insurance. We started with, you know, try to self-insure, but when you get to insurance policies, that's a quick way of saying that, that this is not going to be cheap to cover, but it is for me, the most necessary coverage. It's the one people don't do.
Deb Meyer (20:44.376)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (20:55.608)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (21:01.184)
It's the one that costs people the most when they, when they don't do it. costs a lot when you do it, but it costs a ton more if you don't cover it. And then, yeah. And it happens to far more of us. mean, the statistics are horrible. think the latest statistic I saw was one in seven people have some sort of an event that keeps them out of work. Now, most of those are short-term disability issues, but, and.
Deb Meyer (21:10.402)
you don't and something happens.
Deb Meyer (21:21.838)
Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. But still, mean, yeah. Even short term, it's one in seven. And I think a lot of people mistakenly believe on life insurance, oh, well, you can hear of someone unexpectedly passing away at a young age or something like that, but that's so... I mean, the likelihood of that happening is so much lower than a disability event happening. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Joe Saul-Sehy (21:50.22)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (21:52.248)
So let's talk about life insurance for minute. I know you were alluding to this a little bit with the premiums, but are you a fan of permanent life insurance, term life insurance? Do you see a need for both in different stages of life?
Joe Saul-Sehy (22:06.584)
I am a fan of understanding how the insurance product works and then fixing the need, which is a clever way of saying that the biases drive me crazy, I mean, don't get me wrong, but every insurance company is there for a reason. Every insurance type is there for a reason.
There are some bad actors in the insurance space. There's bad actors in every space, but permanent life insurance exists for a reason. Now that said, 99 % of people probably don't need permanent life insurance. And the reason is, is that what you're looking at with most insurance applications, you're looking at, okay, if I pass away, who needs money and how long do they need it for? And for most of us, if we're working hard on our financial plan, we're trying to get our act together,
Theoretically, if I'm going to retire at 65, I have enough money to cover the rest of my life. So what do I need life insurance for? There are some reasons why you might need it, but for the vast majority of us, there isn't one. So for that reason, term life insurance is easily the best way to go. That said, my problem with getting angry about permanent life insurance from my perspective is this. Back when I was a financial planner,
There was one time every two years, I needed to talk to somebody about permanent life insurance. And this person had done a great job of living. have a nice sum of money. They have a good income stream. Things are going really well for them. And I present to them that we need for whatever reason. And if you want, we can get into some of the reasons, but they need it. Those were always the people.
that had bought hook line and sinker that it's term or nothing, which was horrible. Cause I got the one person who would help and I can't convince them to do the thing that's going to help them the most. So frustrating. Or I have to, you know, put on a dog and pony show and I, and I just, it was so, it was so, so hard sometimes.
Deb Meyer (24:03.662)
Mm.
Deb Meyer (24:08.366)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (24:14.008)
Mm. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (24:23.758)
Well, luckily you don't have to worry about that anymore. You transitioned into financial media and I've stuck here through and through. yeah, but I'm with you. I generally speaking, I do recommend term life insurance. I'm not an insurance advisor. So I always refer out to other insurance agents if clients need coverage. But in my situation, it always works out well to.
Joe Saul-Sehy (24:32.702)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (24:48.622)
for younger families especially where the premiums, you are trying to get some bang for your buck on the premiums, maybe have that disability policy that's beefier and then have a term life policy to protect on both of those downside risks. And then over time, it might make sense as someone's in their 50s or.
Joe Saul-Sehy (25:06.072)
Sure.
Deb Meyer (25:09.23)
even in their 40s, if they're starting to see, they have some financial bandwidth and they can afford these higher premiums for permanent insurance, there can be some really good use cases for it. I personally prefer some of the hybrid policies on long-term care and life combined as clients get older and that can be a helpful aid. But some of those permanent life insurance policies can also come to the rescue in those years if long-term care costs are high.
Joe Saul-Sehy (25:29.922)
Well, and that's a...
Joe Saul-Sehy (25:40.216)
We have, is, this is interesting. My, my daughter is, uh, is dating a guy who is, uh, in the PhD program at MIT and, and he's in finance and he's working in the area of insurance. And he and I on this trip, wonderful trip we just took to new river Gorge, but we're trying to get to all the national parks. We're out hiking and what's, what's more of a fun conversation, Deb, than talking about insurances.
while you're hiking down a beautiful trail. There's nothing else. My daughter and my wife are bored to tears while Bryce and I are just having a blast. But what's interesting is that long-term care is a huge issue. Long-term care is so expensive. It is so, so, so expensive that for people like you, it's so difficult to figure out how to cover it. And that permanent life insurance policy with the rider is one
Deb Meyer (26:09.453)
haha
Joe Saul-Sehy (26:38.808)
cost-effective approach that kind of is left to us. But an interesting side note there, because really that's a type of disability coverage, right? This is where state regulators got in the way of the policy. And I didn't know this story before Bryce shared it with me. And he shared that he learned this from Amy Finkelstein, who I've actually talked to before. She's one of the foremost researchers in insurance and insurance backgrounds.
But what happened was the state regulators, Deb, they protect consumers by not having prices go up that high. And as insurance companies throughout the early 2000s went to insurance regulators and kept going, we need to raise the premium, it was the states that kept going, you can't do that. You can't do that. You can't do that. so it actually, because I always wondered about long-term care.
Deb Meyer (27:08.695)
Okay.
Deb Meyer (27:27.531)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Joe Saul-Sehy (27:37.666)
How did we get it so wrong? Because back in the 90s and the early 2000s, was so inexpensive. mean, not inexpensive, it was still expensive, but so much less than today. And this is an area where by protecting the consumer, we actually made things much harder on everybody who's planning.
Deb Meyer (27:38.264)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (27:43.916)
soon.
Mm-hmm
Deb Meyer (27:53.198)
Mmm.
Yeah, well hopefully once he gets his PhD he'll be able to help solve the crisis, right?
Joe Saul-Sehy (28:03.416)
I think it might take more than one PhD, but go get them, Bryce.
Deb Meyer (28:06.786)
know, I just say maybe he'll lead a team of PhDs and find the right solution. So I'm glad you brought up the trip though. So I'm sorry. What'd you say? okay. That's good. He's getting the Joe stamp of approval. So tell me a little bit more about the travel adventures. I know you also launch stacking adventures podcast, right? That's not
Joe Saul-Sehy (28:11.992)
If anybody can do it, it's my daughter's boyfriend. If anybody can do it, it's my daughter's boyfriend.
Deb Meyer (28:36.398)
It's just been fairly recent within the last couple of years, right?
Joe Saul-Sehy (28:40.386)
Yeah, just, just over a year ago. Thanks for, for mentioning that this is a passion project for my friend, Crystal Hammond and I, it actually started out, Cheryl, my spouse works in the healthcare field and she loves what she does, but she and I actually were talking about, know, we'd love to travel and we were just talking about how fun it would be to write and share the photos, share the, the, things we did well, the things we didn't do well, all the places we go.
Deb Meyer (28:44.557)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (29:04.366)
Hmm?
Joe Saul-Sehy (29:08.128)
Speaking of Disney, we've done a few of these adventures by Disney trips, which are really fun. A lot of people don't even know they exist. They're like, you're talking about Disney cruises? Nope. Disney has one of the smallest pieces of their company is this little adventure travel company, which is made for families. So my kids, my daughter went with us to Italy. When my kids graduated, we showed them all the different trips and we said, four year graduation, you can pick one.
Deb Meyer (29:12.494)
Have fun.
Joe Saul-Sehy (29:37.324)
my daughter wanted to do an African safari. My son wanted to go to the Nordic countries. So they agreed on Southeast Asia, which is, I know, know, I know, I've, I have no idea Deb, how we got there. I was just happy that my twins agreed. So, so as any parent is right when your kids agree, let's do it. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (29:37.87)
Nice.
Deb Meyer (29:46.74)
wow. Those are out of left field, but OK.
Deb Meyer (29:55.689)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's You go.
Joe Saul-Sehy (30:06.04)
So we went to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia and saw Angkor Wat and saw just this wonderful, totally foreign to these people from the Midwest. Just amazing stuff. But anyway, we share stories from, it mostly is our adventurers, which is our community sharing their stories. And every once in a while we'll have on some really cool guests who are professionals, but this is not
Deb Meyer (30:09.168)
wow.
Deb Meyer (30:16.834)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (30:36.822)
The goal of this was not to hear from professionals. It was to hear real people tell their stories about their real adventures and places they've gone. So we've had people that have traveled in different places around the United States. We've had people that have slow traveled around the world. And then some of the pros we've had on are really fun. This guy, Rolando Pujols, next year is the hundredth year anniversary of Route 66.
Deb Meyer (30:40.654)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (31:00.142)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (31:05.998)
let's see.
Joe Saul-Sehy (31:06.04)
And so this guy's into all those cool old timey signs you see all over the United States. And we just went around the USA with him pointing to different, these cool, different icons, these old quirky signs, many of them that are going away. I mean, every year a few more go bye bye. And so finding these, these, these cool places to go. And then every once in a while, somebody like we had the points mom on last December. Um, and she talked about how to maximize points.
Deb Meyer (31:11.917)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (31:31.544)
Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (31:35.672)
for travel, which, which could equal how to get into massive credit card debt if you're not careful. So, you know, yeah, we, we caution people about that one, but let me give you just one quick one. After the points mom came on last year, I was building Marriott points and I travel a fair amount like you do for conferences and stuff. So I generally will get one or two free rooms at Marriott a year.
Deb Meyer (31:36.908)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (31:41.87)
So there's a plus and a, the positive and the downside of that strategy. Yeah. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (31:56.674)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (32:04.748)
Well, when I changed over to Hyatt, which was her recommendation, the bad news is there's fewer Hyatt hotels, but the point system works so much quicker. This year I traveled a little less than I did the year before. I just yesterday booked my third and fourth free room for the year. And Cheryl, my spouse and I were talking about, you know what?
Deb Meyer (32:14.146)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (32:22.97)
wow.
Joe Saul-Sehy (32:27.708)
It is amazing, just amazing how much quicker you accumulate free nights using Hyatt versus Marriott or IHG, which are fine programs. But finding the right points program is pretty cool. this started off anyway, as a passion project for Cheryl and I. Cheryl's still busy. So I asked my friend, Crystal, if she wanted to help out and she's like, heck yeah. And so Cheryl and Crystal and I share our journeys around the world once a week, generally on Tuesday, but because it's our passion project.
Deb Meyer (32:35.16)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (32:48.984)
So good.
Joe Saul-Sehy (32:56.864)
If stacking, Benjamin's has taken a little more time, you might get it on Wednesday, maybe Thursday, but usually on Tuesday.
Deb Meyer (33:01.102)
you
Deb Meyer (33:04.674)
I'm still impressed that you're able to do both simultaneously. I have enough of a hard time getting every other week on Beyond Budgets. Yeah, I'm also still advising full time. yeah, yeah. Well, thank you. This has been wonderful. Yeah, I know we talked a little bit about both podcasts, but where is it best for people to find you online if they're interested in learning more or listening to one podcast after?
Joe Saul-Sehy (33:13.208)
You
I was going to say you've got plenty of other stuff going on girlfriend.
Deb Meyer (33:33.473)
after the episode.
Joe Saul-Sehy (33:33.634)
Sure. Absolutely. Wherever you're listening to us now, Stacking Adventures is, as I mentioned once a week, Stacking Vegemens we call the greatest money show on earth because as we talked about, it's a circus. There's a lot of comedy. it is meant to have a, can do this attitude. wherever you're listening to us today.
Deb Meyer (33:48.013)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, awesome. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on. parting thoughts for our audience of parents who are, you know, just excited to get to learn a little bit more about personal finance.
Joe Saul-Sehy (34:04.678)
you know, my favorite one, Deb, this is my favorite one. This is one, if I'd learned it earlier, it would have been so much better, which is this, your kids grow up quick time flies and you want to spend as much time with the people you love or doing the things that you love. You don't want to spend it on managing money. So automation is the key. It's not discipline. It's automation. And man, if you can just set up.
Deb Meyer (34:27.982)
Mm.
Joe Saul-Sehy (34:33.036)
things so your money automatically goes where it should go. And then bump up those savings amounts whenever you cancel a subscription or find a better phone plan or whatever it might be in your budget and just lock in that savings by raising the automation. That for me was how I turned my money situation around. And for anybody starting out, throw discipline in the trash because you'll be disciplined until you're not, but automation, man, it's sticky. It's great.
Deb Meyer (35:01.898)
Awesome, thank you. That's wonderful closing thoughts. All right, well, yeah, this has been a true joy. We really, really appreciate it. And yeah, I'm excited to tune in now to Stacking Adventures. I wanna plan our next travel engagement. Yeah, that would be fun.
Joe Saul-Sehy (35:17.858)
Well, come on, we got to hear about your travel depth. So maybe we need you to be a guest over there. You could tell us about the, you could tell us about the Heinz factory in Detroit.
Deb Meyer (35:27.15)
Okay, for yes, yes, for listeners, Joe and I were chatting a little before the episode talking about our crazy moves. He's from Detroit originally. I was like, we got to go to Detroit on our road trip. And I got mixed up with where the Heinz factory was because we also went to Pittsburgh. And apparently I picked wrong when I said, we went to the Heinz factory in Detroit.
Joe Saul-Sehy (35:30.028)
Which is an inside joke, everybody. That's for another day.
Joe Saul-Sehy (35:55.416)
I was like, I've lived there most of my life. I've no idea. We had a hides factory, but Pittsburgh's a great place to go to. Isn't it beautiful city. I was surprised by how much I liked it.
Deb Meyer (36:02.804)
Yes, Pittsburgh is great too. We really, we had a blast, but yes, I just can't believe I mixed up the cities and what we saw.
Joe Saul-Sehy (36:11.896)
It happens with us too.
Deb Meyer (36:15.246)
All right, thank you.