Big Hat, No Cattle: Rethinking Wealth with Carl Richards | E47
What if the best money conversations aren’t really about money?
In this episode of Beyond Budgets, Deb Meyer sits down with Carl Richards, author of Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in Simple Sketches, to explore how we can think more clearly and speak more kindly about money in our relationships.
Carl shares why our views of money often clash with those closest to us, how comparison gets in the way of contentment, and what it means to align our values with financial decisions.
This is a must-listen for anyone who wants to bring more clarity and calm into their financial life, especially parents trying to model healthy money habits for the next generation.
A Few Favorite Quotes
“Your values aren’t at war, they’re in conversation.”
— Carl Richards
“You don’t have to resolve every money tension in your marriage. Sometimes the difference is the strength.”
— Deb Meyer
Episode Highlights
(2:32) Why spouses often see money differently, and how to navigate that with less tension
(7:42) What “big hat, no cattle” means and how to stop comparing your life to others
(14:03) Why values can conflict without being wrong, and how to live in that tension
(17:28) The difference between investment returns vs. investor returns
(25:41) How to spend in a way that brings more joy and connection, not just more stuff
About Carl Richard’s Book
Carl’s new book, Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in Simple Sketches, comes out October 21 and is designed to be a “conversation grenade”. It will help spark more meaningful dialogue with your spouse, kids, or friends around money.
Want a free excerpt?
📧 Email hello@behaviorgap.com with “Friend of Carl” in the subject line to receive a preview.
Connect with Host Deb Meyer, CFP®
Founder of WorthyNest®, helping intentional parents build financial plans that reflect their values.
Schedule an Initial Meeting | Follow us on YouTube | Take the Financial Wellness Quiz
Full transcript
Deb Meyer (00:01.076)
What is money? This is a question we're gonna keep coming back to in this episode. Today's guest, Carl Richards, started the Sketch by Column in the New York Times from the hills of Utah with just cardstock and a Sharpie. That column actually ran weekly for a decade. And interestingly enough, his journey began when Carl applied for what he thought was a job as a security guard, only to find out the ad actually said securities.
It’s a pretty big difference, and it led to a lifelong dedication to reshaping how we think about money. Since then, Carl has become a Certified Financial PlannerTM. He's built and sold a successful investment firm, and he's spoken at financial and investment events worldwide. His bestsellers, The Behavior Gap and The One-Page Financial Plan, have been translated into over 10 languages and continue to resonate globally.
Carl's podcast, Behavior Gap Radio, and more recently, 50 Fires, share new perspectives on aligning our financial resources and what truly matters. When he's not exploring ideas about money, Carl is navigating Utah's high mountain ranges on foot, skis, or bike as a wilderness first responder. Married to Corey since 1995, they have four kids whom they consider their best friends.
Carl, thank you so much for joining us on the Beyond Budgets podcast!
Carl Richards (Your Money) (01:27.362)
Thanks, Deb. I'm really, really honored to have this conversation with you.
Deb Meyer (01:30.72)
Yeah so let's dive into your new book, Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in Simple Sketches. It's not really an ordinary book. As you describe in the intro, it's actually a conversation grenade. The goal is to give readers 101 different ways to have better conversations about money.
I'm thrilled to have you dive into a few of those sketches, give listeners a preview of what the book's about, but really focusing on that conversation. Hopefully, the listeners are going to both nod in agreement and feel very uncomfortable simultaneously.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (02:11.15)
Right, right. My editor used to call that confrontational without being off-putting. Yeah. So if we can pull that off, we'll have won. Yeah. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (02:19.366)
Yes, awesome! Okay, well let's dive into the first sketch. I like it because it talks about my view of money versus your view of money, and those don't always line up. It's sketch four. Could you dive into a little bit of the thought behind why we have different views of money?
Carl Richards (Your Money) (02:45.292)
Yeah, I mean, that's such a great question. I drew this originally based on a conversation I was having with my wife. And this was so long ago that I can't remember the specific conversation. And it doesn't really matter. I just remember her saying something and me being sort of like, well, first I think I was mad. But when I came to my senses in sort the more mature version of myself, I was like, “That is so surprising that she views money that way.”
Right? Like that thought she had, you know, for instance, I remember somebody once saying, in fact, I came home one day, we'll use this as an example, because this is true. I came home one day and was from work and was like, oh, and I was like acting sort of like a beast of burden, like, oh, so hard.
Making money is so hard, was even using sort of that voice, and my wife was like, “Hey, you know what?” She said, just like, you know, “humor me for a minute. What if it wasn't?” And she's like, just what if it was fun and easy? And I remember being like, “What are you talking about?” You know, thinking like that, cause that thought had never occurred. And we, again, it doesn't really matter whether making money is fun or easy or hard.
It turns out that there are people in the world that view money as freedom. There are people in the world that view money as oppression. Both of those are true. And so I just have been endlessly fascinated. And if we can sort of learn to maybe
Deb Meyer (04:18.634)
Mm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (04:37.41)
be a little less reactive like I was. Like, what are you talking about? Instead of being curious, like fun and easy, how does that work? Or, wow, you view money as freedom? One of my new favorite lines of thinking is to say like, help me understand how you think that way. Like that thought has never occurred to me. You apparently think that way. I don't know how to think that way. Could you talk, walk me through it?
Deb Meyer (04:58.794)
Mm-hmm.
Sure.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (05:07.614)
It that's a long-winded answer to just like look in the book that sketch is sketch number four. It's just a square for your readers or listeners. It's just a square. The square is labeled my view of money and my is underlined and then there's a circle that says your view of money and I was just trying to get across different views and if we can just understand that often our and I don't probably none of your listeners can relate to this but some people fight about money. Some couples spouses fight about money.
Deb Meyer (05:35.52)
Very few (laughing)
Carl Richards (Your Money) (05:37.824)
Yeah, almost no one. But often our fights, quote unquote, we call them heated discussions. Often our heated discussions around here are simply a misunderstanding of how we're viewing money. And both perspectives are correct. it turns out you kind of get to choose which view of money you want to have.
Deb Meyer (06:02.912)
And honestly, like if you have people in a marriage that are on two different sides of the spectrum, hopefully there's that middle ground. Like I truly believe we're not going to be put together, bound together as husband and wife and just always be on polar opposite ends. eventually one person's view of money is going to rub off on the other person's view and you come closer together over time. It just might take some hard conversations to get there.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (06:29.142)
Yeah, totally. And the other view of it could be like maybe that tension and tension, I'm not using it as a negative word. Maybe that tension is good. Maybe we can learn like there are some conversations that I'm no longer invited to about money. And there are some comfort. I noticed the kids will call me when they want to have a certain and it's not about like asking for money. It's like when they're trying to get a certain certain perspective, they'll call me and
Deb Meyer (06:38.506)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (06:47.069)
okay.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (06:58.272)
they're trying to gain a slightly different perspective, they'll call my wife, like we've leaned into those strengths and learned to find the overlap. yeah, and also I am a little less reactive because of the way my wife, so yes, we've come together, but we've also learned to, those differences are strengths, you know, they can be seen as strengths, you can play into those strengths.
Deb Meyer (07:19.296)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (07:23.326)
you learn to respect the other person's differences and views.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (07:26.2)
Totally. And there are some that, you know, look, my total fear that there's a lion in every bush financially, like today's gonna be the day, you know, like that needs to be worked on. That's not a strength. That's just something that causes problems. anyway, we've talked about one sketch so far. See, we could go for hours about every single one. So anyway, thanks for asking about that one. Yeah. Yeah.
Deb Meyer (07:37.258)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (07:44.384)
Okay, I'll move on. move on. So the next one I like, well, I liked all of them. So it was really hard to pick a few, so the picture of big hat, money spent on fancy cars, and then no cattle right next to it, amount and retirement accounts being very small. I think there's a lot of misconception about wealth and you see people.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (07:58.894)
Mm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (08:06.638)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (08:11.38)
driving fancy cars or living in expensive houses and you assume that's paid for in cash or you know some substantial down payment whatever but that might not always be the case right?
Carl Richards (Your Money) (08:24.61)
Yeah, it's, this one's really important to me because I, you know, the big hat, no cattle. That's an old saying. I can't, it's probably from somebody from Texas, like, you know, where you have walk around with a big hat, but you've got no cattle. And really the point isn't whether you have a big hat or you have cattle. The point is pretending. And actually even more than that, the point is us making a judgment on someone else based on some surface sign that we see.
Deb Meyer (08:32.542)
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (08:37.109)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (08:43.284)
Hmm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (08:54.006)
So I'll give you an example. Think how far away we are from the truth when you think, okay, I think what we're sort of basing, like, okay, let me give you an example. When we lived in New Zealand, we went to church one day, to the church that we go to. One Sunday we show up and there was a ranger over there. Now,
that could be normal in some parts of the United States or even in a part or two of New Zealand, but in the town we lived in on the South Island, it was not normal. And I remember walking into church that day, sitting in the congregation, looking around, trying to figure out who was the happy person, who was the rich person, and then I realized, now wait,
Deb Meyer (09:38.718)
wondering whose it is.
Deb Meyer (09:47.092)
True.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (09:49.29)
I don't even know whose car that like if the person got in it, I don't even know that it's theirs. It could be the mechanic.
Deb Meyer (09:55.989)
Yeah.
Good. Sure.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (09:59.926)
Okay, let's pretend it is theirs. I don't know if they paid cash for it and they've got a bazillion dollars and a Range Rover is a modest purchase. I don't know if they put it on a credit card. I don't know anything about it. And so what I was really trying to get at here is what if we just stopped trying to make decisions about like we're almost basing
Deb Meyer (10:08.682)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (10:15.552)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (10:28.876)
decisions on happiness based on spending we can see or consumption we can see because we think the spending correlates to net worth and we think the net worth correlates to happiness. We're so far away from the truth at that point, the number of assumptions we made, because obviously happiness and net worth are not correlated and obviously spending and net worth are not correlated. And so I think the better approach is just to stop making assumptions about other people's financial decisions. That was sort of...
Deb Meyer (10:57.674)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (10:58.35)
That was sort of my point. It's so interesting how quick and easy it is to do. You know, like, oh, that person must be rich. I love, that's my favorite statement one of my kids will make. You know, that person must be rich. Because we can say, okay, what does the word mean to you? My daughter said this the other day. She's like, my 21 year old, 20 year old daughter, 20 soon to be 21. She was like, we're the wealthiest people I know.
Deb Meyer (11:04.063)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (11:15.402)
Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (11:26.048)
Mm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (11:26.796)
And I was like, I felt myself, I felt a defensiveness bubble up, because that's clearly not true based on the definition, one definition of wealth. I did respond a little defensive, like, what are you talking about? Like, what about the so-and-so's and the so-and-so's and the so-and-so's? And she was like, no, no, that's not my definition of wealth. My definition of wealth is we enjoy our lives. Like we get to do what we want to do. And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll take that prize. Do you know what mean?
Deb Meyer (11:37.513)
Okay.
Deb Meyer (11:53.854)
Yeah, we're wealthy.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (11:56.532)
It's so the words, the judgments, it's just a giant mess. And we're better off just to get really clear about what matters to us and then align our use of money with that.
Deb Meyer (11:59.114)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Deb Meyer (12:06.27)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Well, and I think it's so hard to like, we live in a comparison society. I mean, it's, it's a very visual society, especially with social media. There's just so much, so much you see online, if not in your own neighborhood that you're like, you really have to just get away from the idea of like, Hey, I need to compare to whatever other people are doing. And, I like
that visual for that reason too, because I do feel like there's just so much comparison that happens, even if it's not verbal. And it sometimes results in bad spending decisions, to be honest, because they aren't aligned with their own values. They see someone else doing it, but that's not their value.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (12:48.418)
Yeah, it's
Carl Richards (Your Money) (12:52.514)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's
Carl Richards (Your Money) (12:59.458)
You're pointing to something so important. Like if the goal of financial planning, right, is to make progress towards your goals, and those goals are a meaningful life, right, a life of meaning and significance. I mean, we could go so far as to say happiness or joy even if you define them correctly.
The challenge, of course, and what you're pointing to is even getting clear in the first place, what's actually important to you. And that sounds so simple. It's like, I know what's important to me. It turns out we don't because how many times have you done this? Like quick story, Gretchen Rubin, the happiness project, Gretchen Rubin, I was in a conversation with her on my podcast and she said that she was at a
She was at a dinner party in New York and somebody came up to her and they were just, I think they were either just leaving or just coming home from Colorado and it was winter. And this person said, do you ski? And Gretchen was like, no, I don't ski. My husband doesn't ski. Like we don't ski. It was just like, they've thought enough about it. They don't ski. They just like to go out there for the winter vacations. And the lady's like, you've got to ski. And she went on like a five or 10 minute, like you got to ski, you got to ski. This would be so fun. You got to ski, you got to ski. And she's like, no, we don't ski. And the lady left.
She came back a half an hour later and was like, you know what? I don't like skiing either. It's just what I thought we had to do. That's what you do. And I could give you so many examples of that where you're finally like, wait, we don't even like going to the movies. Like the goal was to connect with our friends and we go sit in a dark theater. What if we invited them over to the house and make dinner?
Deb Meyer (14:48.864)
you
Sure.
Right.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (14:56.94)
Right? Like, so just getting clear, and I think this is partially because Instagram's made it so much harder. Like, you know, when I was growing up, I didn't know I was supposed to want, you know, whatever, a villa in France, because nobody around me had Instagram. So that's the first struggle, is just like getting clear. How do you get clear? Just run little experiments and just start being honest. Like, did you like that? Was that valuable? You know, go on the trip. You think you want to go on a s-
Deb Meyer (15:14.131)
No.
Deb Meyer (15:24.768)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (15:25.954)
week long sailboat trip, go out for an hour. Right? Did I like that? So, yeah, so getting clear about what really actually matters to you, not to your mother-in-law, not to your uncle, not to Instagram, to you.
Deb Meyer (15:29.106)
Mm-hmm. See how you like it. Kind of test the waters. Mm-hmm.
Deb Meyer (15:38.016)
Mm-hmm. All right, well, thank you. That's a really helpful perspective. So I guess the next one I want to touch on is values, because with Beyond Budgets and everything I do at Worthy Nest, we talk about values a lot. we have this, you drew a picture of this teeter totter that's the present and the future, right? And how those don't always feel in alignment. Sometimes we can be
weighed down by our baggage of what might have happened in the past. And then sometimes we look so far into the future that it's hard to really even figure out like, what are we going after? So I would love to hear your perspective on Sketch 29 when values collide.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (16:23.758)
Yeah, this is one of my favorite essays. Deb, you're really good at this because you're picking all my favorites. But this is one of my favorite essays. The sketch was fine, but the essay was really important to me because, again, we're back to this word tension. In a marriage, in a family, there are...
Deb Meyer (16:28.637)
Mm-hmm.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (16:50.43)
Sometimes we think that anytime there's tension, the goal is to resolve it. Tension is bad, it's uncomfortable, we must resolve it. But there are a lot of times when we just have to realize, as long as there are finite resources and relatively infinite things you could use them on, it could even be infinite desires, but there's almost always going to be more things you want to do, then you have money for or time for. For almost all of us, that's going to be the case. So, in that case, you're making trade-offs. I don't know that having a goal to resolve that tension, but rather just to live in it.
Deb Meyer (17:27.934)
Great. We have limited resources.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (17:47.97)
But to change the perspective, because there's one line in that essay that might be my favorite line in the whole book. I worked really, really hard on it. And I'm just trying to find it exact. I'm looking at the essay.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (18:08.85)
Your, oh yeah, here they are. Your values. So let me give you an example.
You may want to live really generously and you may value financial security. Like those two could be competing, right? You may.
Deb Meyer (18:25.344)
Yeah. And I think for a lot of our listeners, they are, to be honest, like generous and,
Carl Richards (Your Money) (18:29.814)
Yeah, of course, even paying a regular tithe versus paying off the mortgage. That's a competing set of values. Now, we all know that often those things aren't competing, especially that example, but it often feels like it. I value security and I love adventure. I don't actually want to resolve that. So, the line is your values are not at war.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (19:00.546)
They're in conversation. And to me, I love just changing that perspective of like, yeah, it's gonna be a conversation. Sometimes I'm gonna feel like being more generous. Other times I'm gonna feel like paying extra principal on the mortgage. Sometimes I'm gonna feel like, hey, you know what? Let's go take an adventure. Other times I'm gonna feel like, you know, I'd rather stay home. Right, like those, and we had this conversation with our kids this weekend while we were on a trip of just like, hey,
Deb Meyer (19:02.747)
Mmm, I love that.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (19:31.04)
What we tend to do is run from those conversations because we equate tension to disagreement and anger. And in this case, like we're trying to change that. Your values aren't at war. They're in conversation. Like, can we have a dialogue about this? Can we investigate that deeper? Do you really like that? yeah. I love that. Okay, good. Is now the good time? Like, I love that idea. So thanks for bringing that one up.
Deb Meyer (19:53.482)
Yeah. Okay, let's switch gears a little bit. know we talked just more generally about values and meaning of money. Let's talk about investments for a minute. So I like your behavior gap sketch where it talks about investment returns and investor returns because they're not always the same thing and you have that gap in between them. Could you just elaborate on that one a little bit? Sketch 41.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (20:20.078)
Yeah, this was the original, right? This is the original problem I was trying to solve 20 years ago. was like, isn't that interesting that, so if you open the newspaper and you see an ad for a mutual fund and it says this mutual fund has done 10 % a year for 10 years, right? That's the investment return. Now,
Deb Meyer (20:39.188)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (20:43.636)
The only way to have achieved that return, forget commissions or taxes or anything for a minute, but the only way to achieve that return is if you put money in at the beginning of that 10-year period and you left it there and you didn't take any away or you didn't add any for 10 years. Yeah. So the only way the investment return and the investor return would be the same is if you did that. But nobody invests that way. Like sarcastically.
Deb Meyer (20:57.332)
Yep, just kept it there for the long term.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (21:09.078)
Nobody buys long-term investments and holds them for the long-term. Your listener is accepted, but nobody, nobody does that. I mean, we run around trying to find the thing that the people are all waving their hands on the financial pornography network about, like buy, buy, sell, sell. And that well-intentioned behavior, it's well-intentioned because it applies in other areas of your life. If you're going to hire a new basketball coach for your university, it makes sense to look at the tracker.
So, you think buying an investment that has recently done well means it will continue to do well. So you sell something that has recently done poorly and you buy the thing that has recently done well, which is another way of saying that is you sell relatively low and you buy relatively high. And that's very well-intentioned. It feels like the right thing to do. And it's what we call like really well-intentioned behavior that's maladapted for the new activity.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (22:07.478)
It works when hiring a basketball coach. It works when hiring somebody to remodel your kitchen. Go look at the past kitchens. You should expect them to do at least as well, if not better on yours, because they're getting better. It doesn't work with investments, especially when we're talking about investing like an adult. Like if we're broadly diversified, that's not the way investing works. So often we are rushing in to buy something that's gone up. Think about doing this like at the, let's just say like the Toyota dealership. You you show up and you need a forerunner.
Deb Meyer (22:13.376)
Cheers.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (22:36.788)
And the salesperson says, my gosh, you're in luck. We just marked them up 30%. And you say, my gosh, I'll take three. You're right. No, we don't behave that way anywhere except investing because largely because of the, the, the entertainment circus that's been built around investing. see everybody cheering, confetti, excitement, circus clowns juggling, right? You see all that and you think I better get in. Your neighbor's talking about it. Everybody's excited. And then
Deb Meyer (22:41.024)
Yay!
Wait.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (23:06.402)
then the same, then inevitable thing happens, a scary market shows up, everybody's running around saying things like, aren't you getting out? Aren't you gonna do something? And that leads to this gap. Whereas if you just sat there, right, like you'd never, you'd never plant a tree and dig it up every month to see if the roots were growing. You mean like we need to behave more that way. We need to behave more that way.
Deb Meyer (23:28.055)
That's a perfect analogy. Yeah. Well, and I do think that's where advisors often add that value, like helping talk clients off the ledge when the markets are acting abnormally, whether it's a high, you know, hot market or it's, really declining down because we're that kind of calm presence to say like, no, this is, this is the long-term asset mix. We're going to stick to this. And if we do see something that's already appreciated, let's go ahead and potentially scale it back to rebalance into something that isn't as strong. So thank you.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (23:58.689)
Yeah, I know I think that's really important to point out that the reason to hire a financial advisor or financial planner is not because you're dumb. It's because it's they're not you.
Deb Meyer (24:13.3)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (24:16.43)
and this kind of behavior often. I mean, that's why have a financial. My financial planner and my wife fired me from the meetings. I'm not allowed to attend those meetings anymore. My financial planner actually quoted stuff from my own book to me and then said, the fact that you're involved in these meetings is hilarious. She's really, really direct. But why? It's not because I don't know. It's because it's a blind spot in my own behavior.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (24:41.814)
And to have somebody that kind of, it's very familiar to anybody like coaching, any of that sort of stuff. A coach will see things in a football player that the football player can't see. It's not because the football player is dumb. It's not because they're inexperienced. It's because having a third party perspective, hopefully somebody like you that's calm and that's the other thing. Like when it's not your money, you can tend to, when it is your money, it can often be much more emotional than when it's not.
Deb Meyer (25:11.968)
Sure. Well said. All right. Hopefully, we have time for one or two more. All right. The plan versus process and product. So there's a good ordering to that. And I think people sometimes confuse that ordering. Sketch number 91. Can you elaborate on that one?
Carl Richards (Your Money) (25:18.648)
Sure. Yeah, yeah, that's drawn almost like sort of, I don't want to overstate my comparisons, but Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? It's like sort of a pyramid and plan at the bottom. And I almost think that there's even one below that. I almost feel like there's something that sits even below plan, which is sort of purpose and values. But in this sketch, I'm just embedding values and purpose in the word plan. so what often, so there's at the bottom, at the base of the pyramid, says plan, and then one layer up, it says process. And we could use this around planning, cashflow.
Deb Meyer (26:05.748)
Hmm. Yeah.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (26:24.322)
But let's just use it for investing, instance, like investment process, investment plan, investment product. Most of our problems come, but we just have inverted it. We spend most of our time researching, thinking, watching. We spend most of our time worrying. We spend most of our, most of our problems come from the product level. We could put markets there too. It's what you hear about on the news and you think that's where you should spend your focus. But if you get the plan part right. So here's a really useful suggestion for your listeners. Like if you find yourself worried about the markets or the economy, you know, a specific investment product that you're using, note the worry.
It's okay. Note it, write it down. I'm not saying you shouldn't be worried. There's good reason it's fine. But before you make any decision, just take yourself from the top of that pyramid. Think of it as like,
Carl Richards (Your Money) (27:23.522)
When you're feeling that way, nervous about the market or a product or something, you're out in the branches of the tree and the wind is blowing and you're in the branches. So you're moving a lot. Like this is pretty scary out here. Before you make any decisions to do anything, let's get to the trunk. So we're gonna say, okay, I'm really scared. Why am I scared? Maybe I even write it down. I call my advisor, I talk about it, whatever. And the first thing I wanna do is go, wait, wait, wait, what was the plan? We're trying to get back to the foundation. What's the plan?
Deb Meyer (27:31.125)
Mm.
Deb Meyer (27:37.514)
Yeah.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (27:53.494)
Okay, great. Is that changed? in other words, like time with your family, mainly outside. That's what my advisor would repeat to me. And then she would say, is that still the most important thing to you? Yeah. Time with my family, mainly outside. Yeah. Okay. In order to get there and we'd move up to the pro what were your goals? Okay. The goals is this and this and this. Okay. Based on those goals, what's the investment process? Okay. We have this diversified portfolio and each part of the portfolio is in there because it adds to the
its own individual merits, but it also adds to the whole plan. It's called the science of investing portfolio design. Like this is no smorgasbord. Like we did this unintentionally. This is really smart. Okay. Which, okay. Now I understand that I can, I'm in away from the trunk of the tree. I'm in a much better place to make a decision from a place of the plan. Things aren't moving so fast anymore. can slow down.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (28:45.89)
Remind myself why I did this. Why are you invested this way in the first place? yeah, those goals. Have those goals changed? No, they haven't changed. Probably should just keep the investments the same. But it's okay to feel that way. I don't wanna, I wanna make sure we let people have permission. Cause sometimes it's tempting to be like, you know, go back to riding your bike. Stop worrying about it. No, I understand why you're worried. When I watch the news, I'm worried too. Let's talk about the plan first and then let's get back to that.
Deb Meyer (29:14.278)
Mm-hmm. It is. Thank you. Well, I know we're getting short on time. The last one I wanted to bring up was just about happiness, spending your way to happiness. You talked about time with people you love, experiences, freedom, those all being far more important than useless plastic crap. So I just want to close on that note. I think it's important.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (29:15.48)
So hopefully that's helpful. That's right.
Deb Meyer (29:43.328)
for people to really define where their happiness is going to lie. I couldn't agree more with you that experiences, freedom, those are so much more crucial than anything we can materially buy.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (29:56.982)
Yeah. Yeah, let me just tell a quick story. We had this amazing summer years ago when my kids were young. I had never traveled anywhere, basically, when I was growing up. I didn't have a passport, I don't think, until I was in my 20s. And we had this amazing summer where we went to a bunch of different places all around the world. And I remember at the end of the summer asking one of my kids. What their highlight was, and they were like, “yeah, I thought about it.” And I said, you know, remember that time that we threw rocks down there in the lake? And I was like, what about Paris? You know, you're like, you're like, no, no, no. Throw rocks in the lake. You know, so these experiences with people you love, it's pretty settled doctrine at this point, right? Like helping people in need.
Deb Meyer (30:39.648)
Right.
Throw rocks at them
Carl Richards (Your Money) (30:57.462)
and experiences with people you love will be the greatest driver of happiness. Your sense of community, the people you love and the ability to help people in need, that will drive more happiness than anything else. The rest just sort of gets in the way of us remembering that. And so how you do that will vary by person and it doesn't have to be, it can be, like an experience could be going to New Zealand, An experience could be throwing rocks into the pond with your son.
So I'm pretty sure that at the end in 10 years that the couple times a week walk my wife and I take to the mailbox will probably be more meaningful over you 10 years from now if we keep doing that a couple times a week will be more meaningful than any trip I'll be able to remember.
And the trips are fun and they're important and it could be a memory that lasts forever, but it doesn't have to be expensive. But I think getting clear about that, that's how you spend your way to happiness, right? Your money and your time.
Deb Meyer (32:09.034)
Yeah, yeah. What a great closing note. For people who are interested in the book, they got this, you know, nice preview and they're wanting to see all the sketches. Where can they best find the book and when when will it be released?
Carl Richards (Your Money) (32:24.652)
It's available for pre-order now. It's out October 21st. I'm super excited. my goal, and I'm not calling it a book of poetry, but I wanted it to feel and look like a book of poetry more than a personal finance book. So everything about it, the size, the white space, like, everything about it will not feel like a personal finance book. It's meant to be used as a conversation grenade. My favorite suggestion is to buy one copy from Amazon and one copy from your local bookstore. Right. We so, and it's available now. So thanks Deb.
Deb Meyer (33:04.576)
Great, thanks. I really appreciate you coming on.
Carl Richards (Your Money) (33:08.162)
Yeah, cheers. This is really fun.
Deb Meyer (00:00.16)
Wasn’t that a great session with Carl? If you're interested in picking up his book, I will be linking to the book in the show notes. But I do want to let you know if you're wanting to get an excerpt of the book before purchasing it, you can just send an email to hello@behaviorgap.com, that's B-E-H-A-V-I-O-R-G-A-P.com, and mention Friend of Carl in the subject line.
That's really gonna be a great way to interact with Carl one-on-one and get an email response to see that preview of the book. So I hope that's helpful, and I highly, highly encourage you to pick up a copy of the book. I'm going to be ordering copies of the book for myself and for several clients. I think it's so important to have these money conversations.
Hopefully it will be a good starting point, whether it's a conversation with your spouse or your kids or just other adults … adult friends. It's really valuable. And I know we get so busy in the day-to-day. We don't always think about, you know, really having some of those deeper-level conversations. But they are important and can be so beneficial to your relationships. All right. I hope you enjoyed this episode.
And as always, please leave a rating or review if you've liked the podcast. It's great for others to be able to find out about Beyond Budgets. Thanks!